Talk:Helena Paparizou

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Requested move 21 May 2019

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move after extended time for discussion. bd2412 T 17:17, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

– WP:COMMONNAME - from my (admittedly limited) research I see that almost every source refers to Paparizou as "Helena", not "Elena", and since this is the English-language Wikipedia, I believe that is the form we should use. I am open to arguments of the contrary, however I believe this to be correct. TheKaphox T 13:21, 21 May 2019 (UTC)--Relisting. qedk (t 桜 c) 14:13, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Elena is her stage name spelling anyway.BabbaQ (talk) 18:26, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 16 May 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) b uidhe 22:47, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Elena Paparizou → Helena Paparizou – It seems that there's a difference between how her name is pronounced in Greek vs how it's pronounced in English, but since the article is on English Wikipedia we have to go with English sources. Per WP:COMMONNAME, Helena Paparizou seems to be the artist's common name and her name appears as such on different platforms such as Apple Music and Spotify where her songs are regularly published. Also, per MOS:IDENTITY, Helena Paparizou would be the best title for this article as that's how she self-identifies on her social media pages such as Facebook and Instagram. Keivan.f^Talk 16:09, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. Having taken part in many previous discussions over the last decade, I remember "Elena" being based more on transliteration (and what it "should" be) rather than reliable sources. It seems very clear that "Helena" is the English spelling per the links provided above. Grk1011 (talk) 16:39, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Swedish does not need transliteration. RS say that her birth name is Elena, and that would remain Elena in English. The reason why the record company started to use Helena when she went up to the Eurovision is different, according to the Aftonbladet article cited as source: it would be a fear that in some countries her name would be pronounced e.g. Jelena or Chelena, or maybe just that it was more appealing commercially. Place Clichy (talk) 00:05, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The origins of it are not that relevant IMO. In addition to the WP:COMMONNAME argument, WP:STAGENAME would also support moving this to "Helena". One of the main article naming characteristics is Recognizability. As all of her online presence, physical releases, news reports and independent sources appear to support "Helena" and I'm not sure why we would want to ignore that. Grk1011 (talk) 14:01, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination and Grk1011. Subject's depiction of her own name in the English-speaking world must be accepted as the key element with regard to the main title header of her English Wikipedia entry. Since "Helena Paparizou" is the name that appears on the covers of her English-language albums, on her English-language Apple Music, Spotify, Facebook and Instagram, as linked above, as well as on her English-language Twitter feed then, obviously, "Helena Paparizou" is her own choice of name form. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 19:32, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Support as per above, Given it's spelt with a H on Apple and Spottily and given she uses it herself I see no reason why we shouldn't rename the article, Had this been a case of her using "Elena" then I personally would've opposed. –Davey2010^Talk 19:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. This has been discussed at length on this talk page, see discussions here, here and here at least. Nobody contends that her legal name is Elena Paparizou, and that she started using Helena as an artist name ca. 2004 (she was using Elena as part of Antique). It is already explained in the article body. The question here is really if the biographical article should be named after the name of the person, or the name of her act. Place Clichy (talk) 22:10, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn’t matter what her legal name is. Lady Gaga’s legal name is Stefani Joanne Angelina Germanotta, but obviously we don’t use that as the title of her article. When she started to use this name doesn’t matter either. Not to mention that it’s been 16 years (based on what you said) since she started using this name and every single English album of hers has the name “Helena” on it. The previous discussions, which date back to 15 years ago, were based on guesses about what the transliteration of the name “could” possibly be. But of course with the emergence of social media and digital music downloading it’s easy to see what names the artists regularly use. Since that’s the name on her albums, as well as on the music platforms, and since that’s how she self-identifies there would be no logical reason to keep the article at its current title. Keivan.f^Talk 22:34, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What makes you say that she self-identifies with Helena? Please don't consider Facebook or Spotify as reliable sources for this. The Aftonbladet article cited as source is clear about this: her name is Elena (in Swedish or in English), and her artistic pseudonym is Helena. You can argue that you want this article renamed along with her artist name (as for Lady Gaga), but not that it is her "real" name or her "English" name. A quick reference search will come up with material where she is referred to as Elena in an English-speaking context: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] and even Spotify or facebook which you cite as references, as well as her LinkedIn and Twitter profiles. Place Clichy (talk) 00:05, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

FYI Place Clichy https://twitter.com/paparizouhelena is her official account, "What makes you say that she self-identifies with Helena" - Maybe the fact her Facebook, Twitter and Instagram are all under "Helena" ? ...., Also fans maybe calling her "Elena" because that's what the Wikipedia article is called so they may of got her name from the title. –Davey2010^Talk 00:37, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would have been really helpful if you had carefully gone through the links that I provided above. Those links will take you to her verified official pages on those platforms, not some mere fan pages run by anonymous people. Even the Spotify link that you provided is not the official one. There’s a difference between the two. Keivan.f^Talk 01:19, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

These all relate to her professional activity, and may most probably be operated by her community manager, studio or recording company. I do not see any contradiction here with the fact that her personal name is Elena Paparizou. Nobody denies the fact that her records are published and sold under the artist name of Helena Paparizou since 2004. Place Clichy (talk) 02:03, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, it doesn't matter what her 'personal' name is. Her official recognizable name and the name she uses to release her music is Helena, and it has been so since many years ago. That itself is a solid reason for moving this page. Besides, we cannot be sure about her 'legal' name. After all, nobody has access to her passport to see how the name has been transliterated inside of it! Neither can we be sure about the way her accounts are managed. Many artists personally manage their Instagram accounts. Keivan.f^Talk 02:55, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. She was credited as Helena Paparizou in the Eurovision Song Contest 2005 and Melodifestivalen 2014, and her name is spelled this way on all her albums in English. She was also born in Sweden, so I would argue that the Greek spelling of her name is not even relevant. Compare Stefania Liberakakis, whose Greek name is actually Stefania Lymperakaki. ― Ætoms ^[talk] 21:24, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Greek spelling of her name is indeed irrelevant. The Swedish spelling of her name is Elena Paparizou. As for English, it seems that we find Elena for personal use and Helena for commercial use. Place Clichy (talk) 00:30, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I am concerned, all Swedish media refer to her as Helena Paparizou, not Elena Paparizou. Elena might be her birth name, but she is far more recognizable under the (anglicized) stage name Helena. For the same reason, the article about "Lorine Talhaoui" is titled Loreen and the article about "Marleen Sahupala-van den Broek" is titled Marlayne. ― Ætoms ^[talk] 15:37, 22 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. We have consensus that her common name in English is Helena. The other arguments are all irrelevant in terms of wp:at. Andrewa (talk) 18:04, 24 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

Helena-Paparizou-Eurovision-2021.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:54, 20 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

lengthy lead

we've shortened the overlong lead, as the content is covered in the relevant section: career and personal.

thanks in advance, Augmented Seventh (talk) 05:13, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who is "we"? But anyway, I restored much of the lead and trimmed out some of the claims and stale metrics that aren't as relevant. I totally agree that the lead needed to be trimmed, but four sentences is wholly inappropriate for an article that's nearly 10,000 words long. Guidance typically calls for a summary of each article section. Grk1011 (talk) 13:03, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking the time to instruct me on that editing protocol.

I slip up and use "we" occasionally.

old habit. 😉

thanks again, Augmented Seventh (talk) 00:45, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]