Talk:United States Navy officer rank insignia

Untitled

• To anyone who disputes the comma in "Lieutenant, Junior Grade". Here's a reference I found when I investigated. - Wguynes 05:27, Mar 28, 2004 (UTC)

Shouldn't we get images for the staff corps up? I have no image making skills, and this would be good. --Mtnerd

Staff Corps insignia is listed under its own page. Also, I noticed that FADM is listed as O-10 when it's actually O-11, but I found it listed correctly on the edit page. Anyone able to explain this one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Darthjarek (talk • contribs)

Midshipman

Shouldn't midshipman be listed on this page? —msh210 17:26, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

• As one, I'd say no, since we are about the lowest form of life in the Navy. Also, there aren't links to Cadet ranks on the other pages.--Mtnerd 21:47, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

• I was a midshipman (USNA 65) and was told that a Navy Midshipman was unique and ranked between a non-commisioned and a commisioned warrent officer. There is no Army or Air Force equivalent. As a Navy MIdshipman you are "In The Navy." The same is not true of Air Force or Army cadets.
  • While Midshipmen are "in the navy," they actually rank below all others. Izuko 16:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Warrant Officers are not entitled to command at sea as was previously noted, the entry was deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.19.12.239 (talk) 23:35, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Not sure why the above comment re Warrant Officers is in this section, but as a matter of fact and interest, while Navy Warrant Officers may not "command at sea," US Army Transportation Corps Warrant Officers do command sea-going vessels, albeit not warships. The Army maintains a small fleet of logistics support vessels and ocean-going tugboats.

Also, re Midshipmen, students at the five federal service academies (USMA, USNA, USCGA, USMMA, and USAFA), as well as students in the last two years of ROTC, NROTC, and AFROTC have a special pay grade as cadet or midshipman, and rank between E-9 and W-1. In fact the USMA and USAFA have "third lieutenant" programs wherein some first classmen (i.e., seniors) serve temporary assignments in regular army and air force units as acting platoon or flight (non-flying) leaders during the summer. In this capacity, they are saluted by and addressed as "sir" by enlisted personnel, and generally receive the courtesies due an officer. Additionally, cadets and midshipmen at the federal service academies, as well as cadets and midshipmen serving on active duty, are subject to the UCMJ, therefore, they are in the army, air force, coast guard, or navy, as applicable (USMMA midshipmen are in the Navy Reserve).CobraDragoon (talk) 03:58, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

USMA cadets and contracted ROTC Army cadets are considered to be in the Army, actually. 62.150.121.250 (talk) 06:26, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Collar devices

The collar devices depicted on this page are incorrect. The Navy and Marine Corps use the "soft" edged collar devices. I would change them but am not familiar enough with HTML to try it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jsm0969 (talk • contribs) 20:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC).

Yep, any shipmate will notice the svg of the LT's collar insignia is wrong. It uses the Army/AF insignia where the main bars and connecting bars are close together. The correct insignia is the far apart kind like [[1]] Same goes for the Coast Guard, PHS, and NOAA ranks also. LCDR/CDR's oak leaves and Ens/JG's bars are all supposed to be different too. --71.239.86.145 (talk) 05:45, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, and I have included a parenthetical comment to that point. All of the officer rank insignia are different between the naval (USN, USMC, USCG, USPS, and NOAA) versions and the military (USA and USAF) versions. Firstly, naval rank insignia come in two sizes, one for wear on shirt collars and a larger version for wear on the shoulder of certain uniform coats and jackets. The Army and Air Force rank insignia come in one version, approximately the same size as the larger naval version, and are worn on collar, shoulder, and headgear, etc. Secondly, there are also subtle differences in the designs: naval bars (0-1 - 0-3) have squared-off edges, whereas military bars have beveled edges, as noted above, the connecting links on 0-3 insignia are placed/spaced differently, naval oak leaves have a smoother/shinier finish with a much less defined leaf structure than do military leaves, which have a ridged/etched/lined interior, 0-6 eagles have a difference similar to the oak leaves, and there are minor differences between the naval and military versions of flag/general officer's stars. Lastly, the naval services use a completly different design for warrant officer/chief warrant officer insignia than does the army.CobraDragoon (talk) 01:38, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Admiral of the Navy

I dispute the claim that the rank "Admiral of the Navy" is higher than "Fleet Admiral". It was an earlier five-star rank replaced by fleet admiral. The two ranks have never been authorised at the same time, and an admiral of the Navy only ever outranked four-star admirals.

I have edited the page accordingly. The claim ought not to be restored unless someone cites a regulation or Congressional authorisation that an Admiral of teh Navy outranks a Fleet Admiral. Establishing that Dewey had seniority over the fleet admirals of WWII by virtue of time-in-grade would not be sufficient.Agemegos (talk) 06:54, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

The current rank chart in the article corrects the issue raised above by showing Admiral of the Navy (AN) senior to Fleet Admiral (FADM). However, to answer the assertion posted above by Agemegos that “time-in-grade” is insufficient justification for this precedence, as well as the opinion expressed by Agemegos that the position was a “nonsensical claim,” (in the comments when his edit posted), I believe a further comment is in order to clarify the matter for any interested parties.

Firstly, Agemegos is correct that “time-in-grade” in insufficient rationale, it is rather “date of rank” (perhaps a somewhat subtle, but nonetheless the official primary factor) that determines precedence of officers of the same grade of rank. (As a matter of interest and fact, if the dates of rank are the same, then date of original commission, followed by time in service, date of birth, and finally, alphabetical order of last name, first name, middle name. In the military, someone is always in charge/senior, whether in a barracks full of privates or a boardroom full of “four-stars.”)

Secondly, the US Navy recognizes Admiral Dewey as its senior officer, just as the US Army recognizes General Washington as the Army’s senior general. Even though Washington’s highest active duty rank was Lieutenant General, he was promoted (albeit posthumously) to General and Commander-in-Chief of the Armies of the United States, thus forever securing his seniority to General of the Armies Pershing and all of the Generals of the Army from Grant through Bradley.CobraDragoon (talk) 17:51, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Width of Insignia Stripes

This article needs more work. The section showing the stripes officers wear on their shoulder boards and sleeves should include the width of the stripes, which I believe are 1/4-inch 1/2-inch and 2-inch (for admirals). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomasionus (talk • contribs) 07:14, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

High-to-Low Order of Ranks

It strikes me that the ranks are ordered backwards on this page. Even the highest ranking officer gets there by progressing through the ranks, and it seems to me that the obvious order in which to display them is in the order the ranks occur. As it is shown here, it smacks of elitism...to me. Taquito1 (talk) 13:39, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Read the comment, thought about it, don't have a problem with the order. And from the looks of the other services' articles, some are each way. (Army · Navy · Air Force · Coast Guard · Marine Corps). To have overall consistency within WP, maybe start a discussion over at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history, as there will be many articles and templates affected. — MrDolomite • Talk 16:46, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

NATO Codes

The Nato codes listed are actually the Pay grades. It should be OF-1 for both Ensign and Lieutenant, Junior Grade and work on up to OF-10 for Fleet Admiral. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.176.72.36 (talk) 01:22, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

NATO rank codes are not “Pay grades.” Obviously, an Ensign does not receive as much basic pay as a Lieutenant JG and furthermore each nation determines its own rates of pay. NATO rank codes determine precedence and relative rank between nations and branches of service. For example at the OF-4 level, rank titles between various NATO nations navies range from Commander to (translated) Frigate Captain, Commander Captain, First Degree Captain, Captain Lieutenant, and Captain Commander, and employ several styles of stripes with either stars, loops, lozenges, or anchors on their respective rank insignia. Without a code to translate rank and precedence, multi-national operations would prove highly problematic and efficiency and effectiveness would suffer accordingly.CobraDragoon (talk) 18:28, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

other officer insignia

I saw this image (File:Dean Bradford and Princess Anne.jpg), which shows Princess Anne and a man wearing a Captain's uniform, but with a non-line officer insignia. The Captain is identified as the "Master" (not Captain) of a non-combat USNS ship. His insignia looks like an anchor (it is a little hard to see, but it is clearly not a star). Can someone tell me what his officer insignia means? Thanks --rogerd (talk) 18:08, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

That man is not a US Navy officer, he is a civilian merchant mariner contracted by the US Navy under the Military Sealift Command (equivalent to the Royal Fleet Auxiliary in the United Kingdom). I am not sure of the exact ranks or rank insignia system that they use but it mirrors the US Navy in style. Cfagan1987 (talk) 23:32, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

historical ranks & rank insignia

Any chance this could be added in the future? I once came across an excellent website that had amazing computer drawn illustrations of historical US Navy uniforms and rank insignia. It covered EVERYTHING, all branches, all uniform versions, etc. Sadly the website is now long gone. The US Navy has gone through some very significant changes in terms of ranks and their corresponding insignia over the years and I think it would be worthy of being added to this page. Cfagan1987 (talk) 23:37, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Enlisted Ranks

Don't go on an officer page, reverted --SalemMan (talk) 02:32, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

First paragraph

"In the United States Navy, officers have various ranks, called rates in the USN." Not so. "Rank" is what officers have; "rate" is what enlisted men have. This statement is incorrect. I am correcting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Altgeld (talk • contribs) 23:17, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Rank, rating, rate

"Enlisted servicemembers have a rate as well as a rank." I don't think that's true, is it? I thought enlisted men had a rating and a rate (which is pretty confusing) but no rank. Kendall-K1 (talk) 19:44, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

No, not so confusing once you understand that rate/rating mean essentially the same thing. For example, an enlisted sailor qualified as a sonar technician on surface warships (as opposed to submarines) has the rating of STG (submarines is STS). As an E-5 (Petty Officer Second Class), this petty officer has the rate of Sonar Technician Second Class (STG2). Officers have a rank within a community (Line, Staff Corps, Limited Duty Officer, or Warrant Officer) and a Officer Designator (comparable to an MOS in the Army and Marine Corps, or an AFSC in the USAF) that indicates their broad specialization. For example, an officer who is an 0-3 (Lieutenant) commissioned as an Unrestricted Line Officer (URL) and is qualified as a Surface Warfare Officer has the designator 1110.CobraDragoon (talk) 19:03, 28 March 2015 (UTC)

Orientation of star on post 1869 ranks in timeline section

It is incorrect to depict the stars as pointing up on all of the insignia post 1869, as the star has consistently been pointed down on all USN ranks. See the cuffs on the 2nd-most recent CNO, the star points down towards the wrist, rather than up towards the shoulder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_of_Naval_Operations#/media/File:Admiral_John_M._Richardson_(CNO)_150917-N-AT895-703_(26207156950).jpg 138.234.218.121 (talk) 21:09, 24 April 2023 (UTC)