Talk:Myrddin Wyllt

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Conversion to Christianity

I'm not seeing any reference to Myrddin's conversion to Christianity, yet two images of such are provided of something similar in Scotland? I'm going to remove these as they seem to be attempts to claim that Myrddin was a Christian, which is unsourced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 23:41, 14 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Isnt that a bit hasty for a deletion? It may be that better sourcing is needed - but I'd have though that a stained glass window showing Myrddin's conversion is, in itself, a pretty good source? Myrddin / Arthur are pretty inextricably tied in with celtic Christianity, as the Lailoken paragraph indicates. I'm not a sufficiently experienced editor to know what to do to reintroduce this deletion without causing a problem Gilgamesh4 (talk) 08:15, 15 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

But it isn't Myrddin's conversion, it is Merlin's conversion. Lailoken and Kentigern is a later story, and isn't the original. There are no sources for the original Myrddin's conversion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fabianzzz (talk • contribs) 10:33, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fair point - How would you feel about an extra sentence at the end of the first section? - "Myrddin's grave is reputed to lie near the River Tweed in the village of Drumelzier near Peebles, although nothing remains above ground level at the site. (Stobo Kirk, four miles from Drumelzier, has an altar stone and stained glass linking to the medieval Merlin, rather than Myrddin Wyllt, but reflecting his association with the Tweed valley)".

(So no reference to the Merlin conversion - but not discarding the Stobo Kirk associations all together) Gilgamesh4 (talk) 19:29, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

proof

Myrddin Wyllt was a historical person - is there any proof of this? RickK | Talk 02:56, 15 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I don't know, RickK, but I came here to ask a question which is probably related - is Myrddin Wyllt's threefold death a sign that he is a legendary/mythic figure, give its correspondence to the threefold ritual killings mentioned in the Celts and human sacrifice article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.92.189.235 (talk) 01:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have a question. what's the source of _Myrddin's_ threefold death? In Geoffrey, he predicts a three-fold death for somebody else. He outs Rhydderch's wife's adultery and to prove that he doesn't know what he's talking about, she has a boy shown to him three times, twice in disguise, and Myrddin predicts a different death for each.

100.15.127.199 (talk) 21:28, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt it. He's well connected with historic events and figures. The ritual death probably bled in because he was a druid. ---G.T.N. (talk) 21:59, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

pronunciation keys for Welsh words

This page need pronunciation keys for the Welsh words. (contributed by 09:47, 6 August 2007 YHVHYHVH)

This article and Lailoken

This article (Myrddin Wyllt) and the article on Lailoken seem to agree that Myrddin and Lailoken may have been the same historical personage, but they seem to be fighting over which name is the "correct" one. Lailoken says "Lailoken may be the original figure behind the legends of Myrddin Wyllt...", while this article says that Myrddin Wyllt was "a historical personage" and Lailoken and Kentigern is merely "a version of this legend". I have no idea which is closer to the truth, but either somebody should figure out the two personages' relationship to each other and clarify it consistently in both articles, or else maybe the two articles should be merged. --Quuxplusone (talk) 05:37, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's confusing, but Rachel Bromwich discusses this in a note on Myrddin Wyllt in her edition of the Trioedd Ynys Prydein. Accordin to her, Myrddin is figure in his own cycle of stories and prophetic poetry, and that Lailoken appears in material about Saint Kentigern. Both are said to have gone mad and taken to the woods after the battle of Arderydd and so the stories are obviously related. A. O. H. Jarman argues that Lailoken was the original name, and that the story originated in the Old North where it is set. According to him, the story later became localized in South Wales and the prophet got a new name due to the folk etymology of Carmarthen (spuriously said to mean "Fort Myrddin"). Bromwich notes that there is one problem with Jarman's argument - that the name Myrddin appears the poem Y Gododdin (though this could be a late interpolation). She says the relationship between Myrddin and Lailoken is one of the "basic problems" of the Myrddin cycle.

All that said, clearly the matter does need to get cleared up at Wikipedia. I think a merge may be in order, as discussing either character is impossible without discussing the other, and because they may have the same genesis anyway. I'll try to get on it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 06:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

you know how Moshe's father-in-law seems to have more than one name? that's a feature of an oral tradition that is transmitting in multiple daughter cultures, each of which has its own name for the character. the same feature leads to each of the four mother groups of the Greeks having their own in-turf place where Deucalion and Pyrrha landed. Likewise the Gilgamesh and Atra-Hasis tales are so much alike, they probably have a common forebear, they just use different names for the main character. Myrddin may be a historical figure, but he is part of Welsh tradition and Kentigern is a missionary to the Scots.

100.15.127.199 (talk) 21:00, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Twin Sister Gwendydd

The sources tell us tha Myrddin was twin brother of only one Gwendydd. She, using the name of Languoreth ("The Full of Gold"), calls Myrddin "twin brother" several times at the "Dialogue Between Myrddin and His Sister". The hypothesis of two sister is also not strong against the date analysis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Galdaran (talk • contribs) 21:44, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This article needs more citations:

Hey everyone:

We need to get more citations for this article. I know it's harder to get paper citations for information in an article, but we need to preserve important cultural information like this, and the best way to do that is to make sure it's digitized and is well sourced.

Hello, you obviously haven't read Vita Merlini to say he lived a wretched existence in the woodlands. He has a passion for the woodlands and chooses to live there (himself) in fact others can't persuade him otherwise. It may be wretched to some, or whoever typed this, but this was a choice- the magic of his poetry and prophesying lies within the woodlands.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Thomrenault (talk • contribs) 22:08, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

threefold death

Multiple ways of securing one's death was a known way of human sacrifice among druids. I'm surprised no-one saw a connection there...--Satrughna (talk) 21:40, 19 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

myrddin and Lancelot

The madness of Myrddin sounds oddly like Lancelot running mad after Gwynhyfawr's cruelty to him. Has anybody written a paper about that? 100.15.127.199 (talk) 15:42, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]