Talk:Nicholas Romanov

Requested move: Nicholas Romanov → Nicholas Romanov (disambiguation)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No clear consensus to move Mike Cline (talk) 01:18, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nicholas Romanov → Nicholas Romanov (disambiguation)

–relisted - Mike Cline (talk) 16:41, 1 December 2011 (UTC) This move would allow Nicholas II of Russia to be designated as WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. If you Google "Nicholas Romanov" -wikipedia the top referent is Dr. Nicholas Romanov, a health guru who does not currently have an article on Wiki. Everything else that comes up relates to the last tsar. Nicholas II is one of Wiki's top 4,000 articles with almost 1.1 million page views last year. Kauffner (talk) 19:45, 22 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose If the health guru is the top referent we should seriously consider giving him his own article. Royals are not often referred to by their surnames. Also, is Tsar Nicholas I really much less important than Nicholas II? PatGallacher (talk) 01:47, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nicholas II became "Nicholas Romanov" when he lost his position as tsar. The term is not commonly used to refer to Nicholas I. Nicholas Romanov, Prince of Russia got over 63,000 page views last year. Off Wiki, this Nicholas is a rather obscure claimant to the Russian throne, even compared to Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, Russia's more or less official pretender. So that number is way out of whack. The article on the pretender is one of the top results for "Nicholas Romanov," so many readers may be clicking on it expecting an article on Nicholas II. I am hoping that this move will expedite some of those readers to where they want to go. Kauffner (talk) 09:30, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support placing a redirect hatnote on the Nicholas II article. If Dr Nicholas Romanov needs an article, it can be added to the dab page. I have never heard of him. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:37, 25 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose mainly per the Google evidence the nominator brought up and that it is clear to me that if there is argument over who is the primary topic, there isn’t one (especially if there are at least 3 possibilities…). For now I’ll forgo my other argument, that all the Russians linked here are actually called Николай, which should be transliterated to Nikolaj or Nikolay, not “translated” to “Nicholas”. MTC (talk) 14:00, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We don't have any page view numbers for the running coach. But as he is currently below Nicholas Romanov, Prince of Russia in the Google rankings, I don't think he should be considered a potential primary topic. I am not sure who the third person you are referring to might be. Kauffner (talk) 18:15, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was referring to the 3 people that had come up in this discussion as potential primary topics: the health guru / running coach mentioned in the nomination (despite him not yet having an article), “Nicholas Romanov, Prince of Russia”, and “Nicholas II of Russia”. MTC (talk) 08:11, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment While Nicholas Romanoff may be as you contend, "Romanov" doesn't seem so obvious. The common romanization in English for the Czar dynasty would be "Romanoff" (old method of transliterating) 70.24.248.23 (talk) 07:46, 2 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Anyone actually using "nicholas romanov" in a search is probably unlikely to be looking for Nicholas II, or just as likely to be looking for Nicholas I or one of the other uses on the dab page, so, despite the google results, I don't think it's clear we have a primary topic here. --Born2cycle (talk) 22:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC) Changed mind; see below --Born2cycle (talk) 02:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

When Nicholas II was dethroned in 1917, he became "Nicholas Romanov". Royals are typically referred to by given name only. So despite the fact that there were other Romanovs named "Nicholas", the name "Nicholas Romanov" is associated specifically with the last tsar. Look at The life of Nicholas I., emperor of Russia, The military reforms of Nicholas I or Nicholas I and official nationality in Russia, 1825-1855. Not once do any of these books refer to Nicholas I as "Nicholas Romanov" (or "Nicholas Romanoff"). Even when he was a child, he was "Grand Duke Nicholas". Kauffner (talk) 23:40, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support. I'm convinced by the point Kauffner makes here that the primary topic for Nicholas Romanov is Nicholas II, and so it should redirect to the article about him. --Born2cycle (talk) 02:11, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Most unlikely that we can ever establish a primary topic for this one. It's almost the Russian equivalent of John Smith. Andrewa (talk) 01:16, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.