Talk:Apostolic Faith Church

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December 2004-March 2007

Mistakes

It constantly amazes me that this article says, "The Apostolic Faith Mission of Portland, Oregon, United States was founded in 1906 by Florence L. Crawford," which is blatantly untrue. Why is this? William Seymour was the one who started this church in 1906. Crawford did not start her church until sometime in April or May of 1908. Why is this story still being told? Truth should be paramount! Raina (talk) 03:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). Katr67 (talk) 07:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This article (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Apostolic_Faith_Mission&oldid=111096891) was written mainly by me, but I removed it, bringing the article back to the basic bare bones it had been, because of a friend. It just bothers me that this is what is told over and over again both in this article, at the church, and in other places where the AF is involved, while Seymour is basically ignored -- nonexistent. In 5 March 1907, Crawford still called LA her home according to an AF paper dated that year. I just checked their book, and even it says that the church was founded in in Portland in 1907.

I wish this didn't bother me, but truth should always be the most important thing for any church. I just wish that if I am wrong, someone would show me. Raina (talk) 05:35, 18 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure where you see that, the church states that Crawford was involved with Seymour on the website. It also says that they later branched off. There were differences of doctrines between Florence Crawford and William Seymour, which is why they parted ways after the church was established. Pretty clear via the website, again.Ajlepisto (talk) 11:41, 11 Novemeber 2008

I edited the history for you Raina--I hope this helps makes the distinction you were looking for. -- Justin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.157.205.73 (talk) 22:22, 21 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I just checked their website's history page, and it says Crawford came to Portland Christmas Day, 1906. If we consider that the founding date of the Mission (a break-off effort of Seymour), then one could argue for 1906. Samcan (talk) 19:15, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On one of the pages devoted to a branch church, they note that the Portland church was started in 1907. However, the church traces it's start to 1906, which I believe is tenable; their history started with the 1906 Asuza revival. Samcan (talk) 21:08, 9 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The origins of the AFC are shadier than just branching off from the Azusa Mission. Crawford worked under Seymour in his Apostolic Faith Movement. She had been given oversight of the Pacific Coast. When she broke with Seymour, she contacted these churches and took them with her. Thus, Seymour lost most of the churches in the Apostolic Faith Movement. Crawford organized the new work under the exact name of Seymour's Apostolic Faith Mission. Crawford said that Seymour had rejected the Wesleyan doctrine of sanctification as an instantaneous work of grace after conversion. However, there is no evidence for any change in his belief as Seymour preached the Wesleyan understanding his entire life.

Furthermore in 1908, the editor of The Apostolic Faith, Clara Lum, leaves Seymour's mission and joins Crawford in Portland. She took the paper with her. It is disputed as to who actually owned the paper, the Apostolic Faith Mission of Los Angeles or Clara Lum. Seymour and the Los Angeles mission maintained that it was the property of the mission. Seymour actually tried to get the paper back, but all his attempts failed. If he had sued, the Azusa Street Mission might have won, but Seymour held the early holiness and Pentecostal position that it was wrong to sue other believers so he never did regain the paper. Therefore, Crawford got the name and the mouthpiece of the Apostolic Faith Movement. Despite how you interpret it, it's not a very flattering picture of the origins of the AFC. My source for this is Cecil M. Robeck's amazing work The Azusa Street Mission and Revival. Ltwin (talk) 00:34, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oneness?

There are lots of links at the bottom of the article to Apostolic/Oneness related articles. Is this a Oneness denomination or do they just have the name in common? Adopting the name "Trinity Apostolic Faith Mission" seems to imply they are not Oneness. --67.160.172.29 (talk) 15:55, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it interesting that the trinitarian believers accuse the oneness of "twisting the Scriptures" just as the oneness believers accuse the trinitarian. Sometimes, they come right out with the accusations, and sometimes, they are a little more subtle, using punctuation, capitalization, and other literary tools, to display their disdain one for the other. Their modern histories started around 1900, with the trinitarians being the first, many embracing both the name, "Apostolic," and the idea of modern tongues, with oneness groups starting around 10 years later than trinitarians. Of course, historians use more specific dates for their beginnings, but I prefer to use approximations, because of the variations in dates.

The "Apostolic" group of this article is trinitarian.

It has been a long time since I last wrote on Wikipedia, so I don't remember the process for identifying myself in these articles. I will try to do what I remember. However, I am Raina. Raina (talk) 23:48, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa

Is the Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa affiliated with this church? Ltwin (talk) 00:38, 3 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After conducting research I've come to the conclusion that these two denominations do not have ties. Ltwin (talk) 06:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Differences with "Apostolic Faith Church" in England — Same name but different group

It is recorded of another group called the Apostolic Faith Church started in 1911 by William Oliver Huchinson. That group seems to have been totally separate, and nothing to do with the Apostolic Faith Church of Portland Oregon. See An Introduction to Pentecostalism: Global Charismatic Christianity By Allan Heaton Anderson p. 101.

Is it worth putting a note on the first page, that there was another group, unrelated but still pentecostal, by the same name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.148.68.200 (talk) 19:18, 7 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This is already mentioned in the history section of the Apostolic Church (denomination) article. Ltwin (talk) 19:33, 7 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]