Talk:Timeline of space travel by nationality

old

Qertis just pointed out that Remek flew March 2, before Jähn on August 26. Should we add month and day to all of these years in the list?

I don't know who flew first in each year. I didn't look for that when I made the list. There might be other mistakes like this. Rmhermen 13:22, Oct 20, 2003 (UTC)

Pavel Popovich was Ukrainian. He flew Vostok 4 in 1962 for the Soviet Union. Should he be listed as the first Ukrainian in space rather than Leonid Kadenjuk in 1997? Although, at the time of his flight, the Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. Rusty 20:30, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I think it should be the nationality at time of launch. Which means leaving it the way it is. Except the first Russian should be listed, too. Jwolfe 20:40, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

You are probably correct. But does that also mean that Germany should get another listing separate from East and West Germany? Also, now that Czechoslovakia has become the Czech Republic and Slovakia, two more space travelers can be listed. This could get confusing. Rusty 21:58, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

No Australians in space

Paul D. Scully-Power of Australia made his flight in 1984, after becoming a U.S. citizen in 1982. At that time, Australian law was such that actively applying for citizenship of another country automatically voided your Australian citizenship (this is no longer the case). So, technically speaking, he was not an Australian citizen when he lanuched. This is reflected by his patch on his spacesuit, showing a US rather than an Australian flag. This has not stopped the Australian media referring to him as an "Aussie". Commking June 2005

Indeed, to date no Australian has gone into space as an Australian citizen sponsored by the Australian government – all "Australian" astronauts have been Australian-born American citizens possibly holding dual-Australian citizenship. Andy Thomas complains about this himself here. The Australian media regularly misrepresents the status of Australian-born astronauts to generate "local interest" for news stories --203.52.130.138 06:13, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Is it "by nationality" or "by country"?

Is it "by nationality" or "by country"? If former, then, say, chinese (and, as I believe ukrainians) have got to space muuuch earlier, being USA and USSR citisens.

If the Chinese guy is a US citizen, then his nationality is US. Nationality should not be confused with ethnicity.

If latter, article title is misleading.

It means nationality, which country he/she was a citizen of at the time of the spaceflight. Rmhermen 00:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Section for dual-citizens, former citizens, etc.?

Would it make sense to add a section to the end for the dual-citizens, former citizens, and so forth, that people keep wanting to add? It would get it out of the main list, but still acknowledge that such people exist. I was thinking of just a bulleted list of text, such as:

• Shannon Lucid, first launched xxx, was born in China to American parents of European descent.
• Franklin Chang-Diaz, first launched xxx, was born in Costa Rica, but was an American cizizen when he first went into space.
• Paul D. Scully-Power, yadda, yadda, yadda.
• Piers Sellers, etc.

What do you all think? Jwolfe 10:16, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Probably a good idea. I don't know how many there will be though. Rmhermen 20:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Why don't we draft the list here until we have a reasonably complete list? I'll start. Jwolfe 20:50, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I copied over the section as we have it below, but I'm wondering if we shouldn't remove Lucid and Thomas since Wang and Scully-Power, respectively, got to space before them. Any opinions? Jwolfe 10:39, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

We have had to remove Thomas from the now-main list more than once before, so I think they can stay. Rmhermen 16:57, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

With regards to this, how does the inclusion of Ansari (a dual Iranian-American citizen) change things? Is that precedent for putting dual-citizens back on? And if not, why not?Astrofreak92 (talk) 17:56, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Follow-up: I see there was a note made about sponsoring nations in the case of dual-citizenship. So Ansari and other self-funded travelers are the only people eligible to have both citizenships counted? Is that correct?Astrofreak92 (talk) 18:00, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Ansari didn't change anything on the list. The only issue was whether she still had Iranian citizenship. Any first flyer is listed even if they are dual citizens - based on their citizenship at the time of the flight. Rmhermen (talk) 18:18, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

I've read some indications that Andy Thomas regained Aussie dual-citizenship in 1997. Nothing definitive, and nothing I can cite, but if that were true, would that put him back on the list? A number of the other ambiguous cases might have also had active dual-citizenship, is that worth looking into?Astrofreak92 (talk) 18:56, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

That is why we created the section after the main list where all these cases are discussed. Are there any we missed? Rmhermen (talk) 19:21, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

On second look, I can't find any legitimate sources explicitly corroborating what I had seen. I was just prompted to look into it because the 1996 in spaceflight and STS-77 pages reference Thomas as Australian, and I'm still not sure if I should delete those references. What are your thoughts on that matter? Regardless, I'm looking forward to the first change on this list in 7 years on Wednesday.Astrofreak92 (talk) 19:40, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Other claims (proposed section)

The above list uses the nationality at the time of launch, with preference given to the sponsoring nation in the cases of dual citizenship. Lists with differing criteria might include the following astronauts:

• Paul D. Scully-Power, first launched October 5, 1984, was born in Australia, but was an American citizen when he went into space.
• Taylor Gun-Jin Wang, first launched April 29, 1985, was born in China to Chinese parents, but was an American citizen when he went into space.
• Shannon Lucid, first launched June 17, 1985, was born in China to American parents of European descent, and was an American citizen when she first went into space.
• Franklin Chang-Diaz, first launched January 12, 1986, was born in Costa Rica, but was an American cizizen when he went into space.
• Andy Thomas, first launched May 19, 1996, was born in Australia, but was an American citizen when he went into space.
• John Herrington, first launched November 23, 2002 is an American citizen and as a registered Chickasaw was the first Native American in space.

By Costa Rican law, Franklin Chang was STILL a Costa Rican citizen when he traveled to space, and should be considered as the first Costa Rican astronaut.--Japoniano (talk) 01:14, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Flags

This article uses quite a lot of very non-standard flags, (ie. not of the "Flag of xyz.svg" type). I would replace them myself, but I'm not a flag expert and this article uses historical flags, (eg Romania), and I don't want to scre anything up. +Hexagon1 (talk) 14:12, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

First Russian citizen in space

According to the Soviet law there was a double citizenship of a soviet republic (for instance, Russian SFSR) and of the USSR as a whole. So the first person with the Russian citizenship to fly in space was Yuri Gagarin. Similar arguments can be applied to Ukraine and other former Soviet republics--Nixer 17:11, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Similar arguments could be made for listing citizens of each state in the United States. However, each state in the U.S. is not and each republic of the former Soviet Union was not an independent nation. This is a list by nationality, and those citizenships don't count under the most common use of the term. Gagarin may have been a Russian citizen, but he wasn't a Russian national. Jwolfe 22:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not the same. An US citizen native from Texas is not of texan nationality; while a soviet citizen of kazakh nationality was indeed of kazakh nationality (the USSR, as well as Yugoslavia, and maybe other countries, made the distinction between citizenship and nationality, and the nationality didn't implied necessarely that the person was from a given Republic or Region of the USSR.

So, Indeed, it would be indeed better to list each USSR citizen of different nationality (I don't know how much there were, but I suppose they weren't all Russians), by giving both the soviet citizenship (with the flag) and in parenthesis the nationality.

A better parallel for the USA would be the recognized belonging to a native american nation, instead of the belonging to a given State

Srtxg 18:36, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

You are speaking of ethnicity, yes? Gagarin had citizenships of the USSR and Russian SFSR and was Russian by ethnicity.--Nixer 17:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Anousheh Ansari

If all goes well, I'll add Anousheh Ansari as an Iranian citizen, given that she is a dual national and is financing her own trip (and has also worn the Iranian tri-colour). Kaveh 11:48, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I will object. I can find no mention on Google that she does possess dual nationality. Until some proof is provided, it cannot be added (even if and when she does fly). Rmhermen 13:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Anyone born in Iran of an Iranian father is automatically Iranian, the government of Iran does not recognize any other natioanlity. The government of US allows it. It is next to impossible to renonuce one's Iranian citizenship, and she is wearing the Iranian tri-colour. So, the burden of proof is on showing that she is not a dual national. Kaveh 13:34, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

This article at space.com describes Ansari as "[b]orn in Iran and now a U.S. citizen...." I would say it's premature to make any determinations, since she hasn't even been officially added to the mission and a lot of things could happen between now and then. Jwolfe 13:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

In support of my assertion, note the following regarding loss of Iranian citizenship from the United States Office of Personnel Management Investigations Service [1]:

VOLUNTARY: Person seeking to voluntarily renounce Iranian citizenship must have reached the age of 25, have performed military service, have settled all affairs in the country, and acquired the permission of the Council of Ministers. Though the rules for renunciation of citizenship are stated in Iranian Law, practical experiences have shown that Council permission is difficult to obtain, thus hindering legal renunciation of Iranian citizenship.

INVOLUNTARY: Voluntary acquisition of a foreign citizenship does not lead to automatic loss of Iranian citizenship. According to Iranian law, any Iranian national who acquires foreign citizenship without due observance of legal procedures will not have a renunciation of citizenship recognized by the government of Iran. In the eyes of the government, a male (and, in some cases, his wife and children) is still considered a citizen of Iran, regardless of the individual's status in the new country of citizenship.

And yes things may still change, but she was slated to go up next year anyways. Kaveh 14:01, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's official. Ansari has been added to the crew of the next Soyuz. In this picture at cnn.com she's clearly wearing the stars and stripes. It's not clear to me in the Yahoo picture linked above what flag she's wearing. I think she warrants a listing in the "Other Claims" section. (added by Jwolfe)

She doesn't warrant any entry until after she actually flies! And then I am sure there will be news articles mentioning her nationality to use as sources.Rmhermen 15:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I neglected to sign my last comment. Here's some more information to consider once Ansari does go up. On her personal page, she has a patch-like graphic with sections alluding to both U.S. and Iranian flags. On her profile at her company web site, it says she "...will be the fourth private explorer to visit space, and the first astronaut of Iranian descent." The phrase "Iranian descent" implies to me that she self-identifies as an American who is a former Iranian. I'm still inclined to stick with my previous assessment (after she launches, of course). Jwolfe 15:44, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

As promised. The reason previously stated here for not adding dual nationals was that "preference [is] given to the sponsoring nation". Clearly, this is a unique case. Since she has sponsored her own trip, shown the Iranian tri-colour and consciously brought her Iranian-ness into light. Kaveh 07:14, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

And selective examples of news reports from major agencies: AP Reuters AFP

All of those links clearly state that she is a U.S. citizen. (By the way the "preference given to the sponsoring nation" was a only part of a proposal and was incorporated into the page.) Sponsoring her own trip, showing the Iranian tri-colour and consciously bringing her Iranian-ness into light have no effect on the matter. It only matters whether she is legally still a Iranian citizen. We do not yet have any source stating that she is, so it cannot be added. If we can find one, everything changes. Anyone reading the Iranian newpapers today? Rmhermen 18:59, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

In light of the Iranian citizenship laws and her place of birth, she is certainly an Iranian citizen. In fact, I would like to see evidence to the contrary. As for the Iranian media, some reports do not even contain the word "America". She is widely dubbed as the first Iranian in space. Kaveh 01:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Your quoted citizenship laws above do not clearly apply to an underage female. We need a clear quoted source to make this claim. I have not found any yet. If you have please point us in the correct direction. Rmhermen 02:30, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

There is no difference when it comes to subjects born in Iran of an Iranian father. The only time being a female matters is when she marries a non-Iranian. As for being a minor, it only applies when someone is born to non-citizens in Iran and leaves before 18. I can give you the whole thing in Persian, trouble is, you cannot read it. I think you are being unreasonable. Ansari, her husband and her family have all maintained "she's from Iran no matter what". She has gone to great lengths to make a point out of that, even breaking the protocol and spatting with Russian and American authorities. She is widely dubbed as the first Iranian in space by the media, both in English and Persian. The law explicitly states that obtaining alien citizenship is not recognized by Iran, thereby rendering any possibility of her not being an Iranian national unlikely. Sorry, but you cannot simply ignore this body of evidence. I understand when this list was first complied, one could not have foreseen a case like this. I propose modifying the layout to account for it, perhaps by adding a column that would indicate support from a national space agency. Kaveh 03:11, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

You have yet to produce any source in any language that states that Ansari is an Iranian citizen. I have sent an email to her press agent asking for clarification. The above quoted citizenship information clearly differentiates males so you argument is faulty there. Rmhermen 16:28, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The source clearly hints at the fact that the alien wife of an Iranian male is automatically an Iranian citizen. This is yet another factor that applies to Ansari, as her husband is also Iranian. So, she is Iranian by place of birth, by inheritance, and by marriage. Here is the text of the law, you can ask a third party to translate it if you will. I appreciate your goodwill in trying to resolve this. But, at the end this list is OR and I don't feel compelled to live up to your strict requirement for inclusion. Kaveh 03:29, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

The list is certainly note original research and a source is necessary as all sources found so far do not support this claim. Rmhermen 03:41, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Kaveh is 100% correct, Anousheh Ansari is an Iranian citizen by law. She was born Iran and lived in Iran until she was a young adult. It doesn't matter where an Iranian migrates or whatever citizenships he or she may attain later on in life, an Iranian citizen is an Iranian citizen for life, that's the law. Your argument that she may not be an Iranian citizen doesn't make sense considering the Iranian citizenship laws, the fact that Anousheh Ansari is very vocal about her Iranian character, and that she even sports an Iranian flag on her official logo on her official website, personal weblog and everywhere else: http://spaceblog.xprize.org/files/2006/09/anousheh_patch_c.jpg --ManiF 20:15, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

In fact she participates in the flight as an american citizen. Only american emblems exist on her clothing etc.--Nixer 20:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The fact is only Iranian citizenship law matters, not how vocal she is. No one has yet produced a source stating that this is the case and the above quote show that it is possible to cease being an Iranian citizen even if born there. Rmhermen 20:54, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

In fact she registered for the flight as an american citizen. She gave her american passport, not Iranian (and I doubt that even exist).--Nixer 20:57, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

That's not relevant, this is the "Timeline of astronauts by nationality" and Anousheh Ansari is still an Iranian national, regardless of her American passport. --ManiF 00:37, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

It is possible to be retained as a citizen of some countries without the individual desiring or even being aware of it. There are numberous tales of immigrants returning to visit relatives and being drafted into the military as the original country still considered them citizens - Greece has been mentioned in this respect.[2] Rmhermen 21:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand your insistence on denying Mrs. Ansari's nationality. She's an Iranian citizen, and she and her family acknowledge this. "She's from Iran no matter what," Ansari said of his wife. [3] --ManiF 00:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

She is from Iran means exactly that. She is an Iranian citizen is something else and something that no one has yet produced a source for. Rmhermen 03:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

As I read from Russian news, she was prohibited from wearing Iranian flag and making political messages both by Russian and US governments. The Iranian flag was removed from her space-suit.--Nixer 09:56, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The fact is by Iranian law she is a Iranian citizen. To judge and say which law (US or Iranian) is more sacred and should take primacy is to push a POV. Iranian citizenship is defined by Iranian government and US citizenship is defined by US government. In wikipedia we must adhere to neutrality. I propose to end this dispute to add both flags. --alidoostzadeh 02:49, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Both flags is not what this article is about. The question is whether she has lost/given up her Iranian citizenship. As the quotes above show, it is possible to do this. We need a source saying her current status. Rmhermen 03:00, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

She can't give up her Iranian citizenshihttp://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Timeline_of_astronauts_by_nationality&action=edit&section=7p, as long as your father is Iranian your considered an Iranian citizen. For example if you are born to an Iranian father in Mexico or the US or Canada, you automatically become an Iranian citizen. I know the definition is unconventional from the American point of view, but to claim which government's law is more holy and sacred is not following a neutral policy. --alidoostzadeh 03:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I can bring up several credible sources that say she was born in Iran. By Iranian law, if you are born in Iran, you are a citizen, and where ever else you get citizenship, you automatically get dual citizenship. End of story. Its the same story with me.Khosrow II 03:19, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Heh then it is possible to give a person which is to go to space a national citizenship of any country even without noticing him :-) And then say it was the first cosmonaut of that country. In fact her flight was under US banner, she was registered as a US citizen and was prohibited wearing any other state symbols, no matter does Iran recognize her as Iranian citizen or not.--Nixer 06:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

َAnousheh Ansari recently gave an interview to Iranian Channel 4. In this interview she said, "I wanted to ask the youth, specially women, of my country (refering to the Iranian youth) to pay attention to my life and my efforts. Years ago I had a dream of traveling to space and today after years of hard work and education I have achieved my dream....". Source - Marmoulak 04:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC).

User Nixer is talking hypothetically. Where as Anousheh Ansari clearly has stated that she is Iranian. By Iranian law as long as her father is Iranian she is considered Iranian. To claim US law as more correct than Iranian law is not correct. Both governments have their own law. So Ansari is a Iranian citizen by Iranian law. And a US citizen by US law. The US law does not hold in iran and the Iranian law does not hold in the US. Finally here is quote from Anousheh herself: "I'm hoping by portraying a different image of an Iranian woman I'll be able to help people's minds open to the possibility of Iranians not all being terrorists," she says.[4]. Note the source is the USA today newspaper which is an widely read newspapers. So if she has referred to herself as an Iranian Woman, then there should not be any commotion about this. --alidoostzadeh 08:48, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

1. Sources? No problem. All of the Iranian media are calling her "the first Iranian astronaut": gooya ISNA: [5] Danesh Fazaee Iranian.com Baztab Pendar Aftab Newspaper quoting Iran's Space Agency Sharif News Arya News Agency Takkhal IranNews Roshd (Publication of Iran's Ministry of Education) They all however do mention that she also has US citizenship.
2. Legality? Let me put it this way: Even if you were born a US citizen in the US to Iranian parents with naturalized US citizenship status, Iran's law officially considers you an Iranian, and if youre a male, you must still serve in Iran's army. My brother was born in Philadelphia and my father's a US citizen of Iranian descent. My brother is still a "mashmool" by Iran's law. (must serve in Iran's army). It doesnt matter whether you hold a US passport or not. By Iranian law, Ansari is Iranian. She is also a US citizen. No ands, ifs, or buts.--Zereshk 19:09, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

   Have you any sources for this claim? By the way, It does not apply to women as I know.--Nixer 20:03, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Sure. Items 2,3,4,5,6 of Article 976 of Iran's constitution reads:

"The following are defined as Iranian citizens:

1. All those residing in Iran, except for those with an accepted foreign citizenship.

2. All those whose father is an Iranian, whether or not they were born inside Iran. (so it doesnt matter even if Ansari was born in the US (which she wasnt), she would still be an Iranian citizen by law whether or not she has a US passport). By this law, even Andre Agassi and Pierre Omidyar are required to serve in Iran's Army!

3. All those born inside Iran, if their parentage is not clear.

4. All those born inside Iran to foreign parents, provided at least one of the parents are Iranian.

5. Those living in Iran, whose father is a foreigner, but who have lived inside Iran more than one year, after the age of 18.

6. All foreign women who have Iranian husbands.

7. All foreigners who have obtained Iranian citizenship."

(Taken from website of Iran's Foreign Ministry: [6] Translated by Zereshk. You can check my translation if you like).

That being said, leaving Iranian citizenship is almost impossible. The requirements are stated here: [7]. Among them: obtaining approval from Iran's cabinet of Minsiters. And all Iranian citizen males are required to serve in the Army. Except for those stated here: [8] (students studying abroad, people with medical problems, etc).

Hope that helps.--Zereshk 22:58, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Anousheh Ansari isn't a citizen of Iran, they are in exile, it's not possible for them to become citizens of Islamic Republic of Iran, she is a citizen of the USA. Ethnicity doesn't have anything to do with this just straight facts.

It's true that by Iranian law, Anousheh Ansari is an Iranian citizen. However, Iranian law does not apply beyond the borders of Iran. Inside Iran, Anousheh Ansari would be an Iranian citizen (and would probably be arrested and sent to jail). Outside Iran, she either resides in the United States, or travels under an American passport, and is treated as an American citizen. There is no doubt that during her entire time in space Ansari was outside the borders of Iran.

Anousheh Ansari also did not fly representing the IRI. The "colors" she chose represent a country that no longer exists as a legal entity. See here:

“ On her space suit, she wears the flags of both the United States and Iran -- although she wears the version of the Iranian flag used before the 1979 Islamic Revolution. She says that is to honor the two countries that have contributed to her life. ”

She may have intended to represent Iranians as a nationality, but she did not represent and would not have been permitted to represent Iran as a state. In a sense she was the "First Iranian in space", but in terms of ethnicity, not in terms of a legal connection with the Iranian state. I don't say there isn't a case to be made for placing her on this list, though I happen to think the stronger case is on the other side; but putting the IRI flag next to her name makes little sense and might be regarded as objectionable. RandomCritic (talk) 19:13, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Note first that I was the first objector; however, my opinion was changed by the facts presented. Her opinion and U.S. law have no bearing on her position as regards Iranian law. And citizenship is obviously a matter of national law. That fact remains that under Iranian law she remains an Iranian citizen. Rmhermen (talk) 01:05, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

That's all very well, but I don't think that it has any bearing upon the data contained in this table. One needs to go behind the letter and ask what the point of the table is and whether that point is served by presenting Anousheh Ansari as if she were an Iranian national. RandomCritic (talk) 01:11, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The point is she is an Iranian national - and will continue to be even if she doen't want to be (which she has not indicated). Rmhermen (talk) 01:23, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism

Unfortunately in the midst of all the changes, a vandal deleted part of the inline citation of a Reuters story on this topic. I fixed the vandalism as best I could. --Gerry Ashton 20:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Germans

I've made edits to explain the issue of East Germany / West Germany / Germany, as it seems many Wikipedia editors believe these are two or three different countries.

Added also the mention of Lothar Sieber's tragic (confirmed!) flight in 1945, which would have not made him an astronaut even when he reached the ceiling of his "Natter", yet deserves to be mentioned. Also re-inserted the internet claims [9] surrounding the V-2 rocket, which has reached space unmanned, and could easily have carried the weight of a pilot/astronaut - without the help of aliens, btw, as User:Rmhermen claimed twice (now three times) in his total reverts of my edits. -- Matthead ^discuß!     O       16:44, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted this yet again. East and West Germany are indisputably separate countries. And your own sources are the ones mentioning the aliens. This is non-encyclopedic unconfirmed "junk science". Rmhermen 21:33, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

As you may have noticed, the article Early human rocket flight efforts was created, and "junk science" was moved there. Regarding German history, you reverted once again to a version that is clearly wrong, as the statement "East Germany and West Germany unified into Germany" is nonsense. See Exclusive mandate, all Germans, wherever they might have lived, were regarded as citizens of (West) Germany, no matter what the communist authorities in the East tried to establish, by building the Berlin wall and shooting at those who wanted to cross the Inner German border. As stated above, many Wiki editors need to brush up on their history of Germany, see also Talk:West Germany national football team.-- Matthead ^discuß!     O       22:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

This is not the page to attempt to change this - whatever your reasoning may be on the nationality. Try Talk:Germany and Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany. See how far you get then come back here. Rmhermen 23:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Except the link to Early human rocket flight efforts, you repeatedly decline to discuss my edits to sections, notes and flags/states, and simply revert to yourself. Have you ever heard of WP:OWN? I'll revert once again, but will put in the original East/West Germany designations for the time being. Besides, the links to between the refs/notes do not work.-- Matthead ^discuß!     O       00:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be violating WP:POINT and avoiding discussions yourself. You may not be the anonymous edit who keeps readding the East/West German thing, though. If not, accept my apologies. (I have asked for help in sorting out the reference links) Rmhermen 18:39, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

I have returned the list to its stated purpose and name. It has been discussed before that the name is ambiguous; however the place for that discussion is on that pages talk page not here. The use of "nationality" to indicate country or citizenship is common and state is just as ambiguous. In fact the nationality article that Matthead links to above lists his interpretation as an alternate usage near the bottom of the page. Space traveller was never intended as it opens another whole can of worms. Rmhermen 18:46, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

The current statement regarding Germans still is faulty or at least sloppy: "In 1990, East Germany and West Germany unified into Germany. On 22 January 1992, Ulf Merbold became the first citizen of the reunified Germany to go into space." First of all, the proper names of the states need to be used, German Democratic Republic and Federal Republic of Germany, not the current sloppy ones used by Wikipedia. Then, they did not unify (symmetrically), only the GDR ceased to exist when its states joined the FRG (highly asymmetrically), similar to the number of US states growing several times. During the flight, Jähn spoke of himself as "the first German", and also was called "the first German in space" by socialist authorities of the GDR who tried to establish an East German citizenship. The exclusive mandate of the Western Federal Republic of Germany did not recognize citizenship of the GDR and generally considered all Germans to be (West) German citizens/nationals. All GDR refugees automatically were issued FRG papers. With German unification in 1990, the GDR ceased to exist as their states joined the (Western) Federal Republic of Germany, simply called Germany since. On 22 January 1992, the second space mission of Merbold, who was born not far from Jähn's birthplace, was the first space trip of a German after "reunification". Jähn went on to work as consultant to (West) German and European spaceflight agencies.-- Matthead  Discuß   02:19, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Upcoming firsts

Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor, Malaysia's first astronaut, is expected to launch Oct. 10, 2007. Rmhermen 04:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

He;s up. Next should be Ko San of South Korea on April 8, 2008. Rmhermen 15:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

No, it will be the back-up, Yi So-yeon. Hektor (talk) 14:13, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

israeli astronaut in space

it says that "Ilan Ramon was the first Israeli to go into space but he died during reentry. This was not a complete spaceflight under FAI rules", what are those "FAI rules" ? 83.130.167.190 (talk) 16:32, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

See the link to FAI Astronautic Records Commission - Sporting Code Section 8 (PDF) under Note 2 (which disputes Gagarin's record). The specific rules not followed by Ramon's trip involve the rule on "uncompleted flights...if an accident occurs during the flight resulting in the death of any member of the crew within 48 hours", and perhaps "pilot and crew of an aerospacecraft shall remain inside the vehicle during descent and landing". Note, though, that the FAI does not certify records of first spaceflights by nationality. Rmhermen (talk) 22:50, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Sex

Could the sex of each person be given? Kdammers (talk) 04:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I added a line to the intro. There are only three so it seems unneccessary to add a column to the table for it. Rmhermen (talk) 13:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Ukraine

This line was added at some point: "The first citizen of the Ukrainian SSR (according the Soviet constitution) to become cosmonaut was Georgi Beregovoi in 1968." However it conflicts with the earlier claim made for Pavel Popovich and I can't find any support for it. Did I miss something? Rmhermen (talk) 13:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Is Toronto a separate country?

Why Toronto included in this list? Can I delete it?Nilenbert (talk) 10:30, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not. Changes reverted. Rillian (talk) 13:52, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Footnotes need to be fixed

The footnotes for this article are "off" by one place. For example, the footnote listed for the United States is "3" but the information under footnote 3 refers to the Soviet Union. The footnote for East and West Germany is "5" but the information under footnote 5 refers to Czechoslavakia. Somehow, eveything got knocked out of its proper place. Can someone fix this? Thanks. Mtminchi08 (talk) 06:30, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

The use of images in this article

Marc Garneau

Pedro Duque

Ilan Ramon

The use of randomly selected images degrades the quality of this article, and / or the use individual editor's favorite Astronaut's image is not possible in this article, it violates WP:Neutrality (sucks), this article lists more than three dozen individuals and if all images were included in order to keep it Neutral (make it suck less), it would cause technical problems for some browsers and users with slow internet connections. The use of a limited number of images according to a logical or popular order is possible, such as first man and first woman in space, first person on the moon, and so forth.

A similar use of images occurs on two other project spaceflight pages, please see their talk pages here and here.

Please state if you want to keep or remove these images Penyulap _talk 14:01, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

I restored the images which appear to be removed for POV reasons (all non-launching country astronauts remove, only Israeli astronaut removed) in an uncommented edit. I now see this comment here but do not agree with its reasoning. Neutrality does not require every image. See Featured Lists like List of areas in the United States National Park System. Rmhermen (talk) 04:39, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

There is still no logic to their inclusion however. What process are you suggesting for choice of images ? If there is no logic, I may as well include Ivan Ivanovic's image, why not ? Penyulap _talk 11:12, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Yuri Gagarin, the first person in space.

Alan Shepard from the United States of America, the second nation to send a person into space

China's Yang Liwei, the third nation to send it's own citizen into space.

Well, how about these three images, per your suggestion of nations that have launched crew into space. There are just three, so it's nice and neat and logical. Perfect. Any objections to that ? I've included them as it makes the article suck less.

here is a cheeky substitute for alan shepard, lolz.

That national parks article is lovely, I have no idea what system they chose the pictures by, but all those pictures are pretty. I can't see how we can judge who are the best looking people out of this lot however, so I can't see that idea getting off the ground (no pun intended). Anyhow, if you have any idea as to any vaguely logical idea to use, I'm all ears. Penyulap _talk 03:54, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Kazakhstan

A September Soyuz flight will include both Andreas Mogensen, the first Dane in space, as well as Aidyn Aimbetov, a Kazakh citizen flying for the Kazakh Space Agency. Mogensen will be included on this list for certain. Aimbetov will be the first Kazakh to fly for Kazakhstan's Space Agency, but, according to the icons on the pages for Talgat Musabayev's final spaceflight Soyuz TM-31/Soyuz TM-32, Musabayev was a Kazakh citizen when he flew on his final flight for the Russian Space Agency. He was definitely a Kazakh citizen by 2007, when he became head of Kazakhstan's Space Agency, but he was head of a Russian military academy in 2003 after he retired. I am inclined to believe he was a Russian citizen throughout his cosmonaut career, but I am unsure.

First, should Musabayev's final flight be listed as the first Kazakh citizen in space, or should the Kazakh flag on the pages for his spaceflights be removed? Second, if Musabayev is deemed not to be the first Kazakhstani astronaut, and Aimbetov is listed on this page after September, should something be done about the map graphic? Citizens of non-Russian SSRs flew in space during the Cold War, so I understand why the former USSR is highlighted currently, but the flight of a post-Soviet national complicates things. Should former SSRs who had citizens fly in space be highlighted separately from Russia? Should they not be highlighted at all, leaving only modern Russia and Kazakhstan highlighted? What is more important to readers, that the entire USSR contributed cosmonauts, or that only the modern Russia and Kazakhstan will have? Should a cold-war era Europe inset be included in the map to show the Soviet Union as one cosmonaut-launching country as well as Czechoslovakia and East and West Germany, in order to resolve all potential temporal issues at once, while the main map is altered to show current borders? This is important when the launch happens in September, and I think we need consensus here before the change is necessary.Astrofreak92 (talk) 20:42, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

We already have Toktar Aubakirov who went up a Soviet and came down a Kazakh mentioned in the other claims section. Rmhermen (talk) 03:11, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

That seems to be an error repeated on a couple Wikipedia articles. I will remove him as he was only in space in October 1991 and Kazakhstan independence is dated to December. Rmhermen (talk) 03:26, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

See, this is a very confusing topic! But I think it needs to be cleared up as much as possible.Astrofreak92 (talk) 13:17, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

According to this article, Talgat Musabayev was a Russian citizen during his space missions. Aidyn Aimbetov will thus be the first astronaut with an active Kazakh citizenship at the time of launch. I have removed Kazakh flags from all of Musabayev's mission pages, and this page will be updated to reflect Aimbetov as the first Kazakh citizen in space. I have tried to contact the owner of the original map to see if it can be edited, but to no avail. If there are any objections, please let me know now, otherwise I will treat this as settled. Astrofreak92 (talk) 01:26, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

References

New Map

I have created a new map with current map boundaries to eliminate the confusion caused by using a Cold War-era map to reflect post-Cold War spaceflights. This has allowed me to show the spaceflights of Ukraine and Kazakhstan, and would allow the map to show spaceflights of citizens of nations that did not exist in 1991 (Estonia, Croatia, Slovenia, South Sudan, Yemen, etc.). In order to avoid confusion about the first Russian spaceflight being in 1961 vs 1991, I have made the countries all one color, but that can be changed if there is a consensus as to what we'd do about Russia.

However, this does leave some questions unanswered, namely what to do with Czechoslovakian astronauts and cosmonauts from non-Russian SSRs whose astronauts have not been to space since their nation became sovereign. The Czechoslovakian astronaut is now a Czech citizen, and many of the non-Russian cosmonauts reside in the now-sovereign SSRs. Should the Czech Republic and the home SSRs of those Cosmonauts be highlighted? Highlighted in a different color? Not highlighted? Or should the map revert to the Cold War boundaries?Astrofreak92 (talk) 16:59, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

USSR satellite states count as separate countries now?

East Germany was still very much under Soviet occupation in the 70s, so why are they listed separately? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:405:4280:640:25F5:62B0:1F77:6F94 (talk) 23:51, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

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Sub orbital space flights

There is a lot of suborbital space flights included in this list, can we replace the excessively used small note citation with a more visually appearing italics font for better clarity and less clutter? (Putting this on talk page for next few days of discussion before I edit the page.) Xoocit (talk) 21:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

Singapore

Nicolina Elrick is "based in Singapore", but AFAIK she is a British national, not Singaporean. (Singapore does not permit dual citizenship.) Jpatokal (talk) 22:58, 31 October 2024 (UTC)